[HalconLMGA85]

(12-02-2020, 06:54 PM)Leonidas69 escribió:

(12-02-2020, 02:36 PM)HalconLMGA85 escribió:

(12-02-2020, 01:22 PM)Leonidas69 escribió:

(12-02-2020, 12:47 PM)HalconLMGA85 escribió:

(12-02-2020, 12:35 PM)Voluntario2 escribió: Varios comentarios.

Lo que escriben en las redes brasileños y argentinos son sus opiniones personales. No creo que sean las opiniones oficiales. Los M-346 o L-15B no mueven la aguja en el equilibrio militar con nuestros vecinos.
Una consulta para los memoriosos. Ya que se menciono a Bustillo en Ruisa.  ¿Los pilotos uruguayos llegaron a volar en los Yak 130?
Sin duda que los recursos naturales aparecen como el eje de disputa de la Humanidad para mediados del siglo XXI.
No se si Batlle y Ordoñez  no quería bases de USA, el que si se que no las quería era el Dr. Luis Alberto de Herrera en plena Segunda Guerra Mundial.
Entiendo que las bases como la Rota traen muchos beneficios a la población local. Creo que están en un marco distinto. España está en la OTAN y es un apoyo al aliado principal. No es la situación de Uruguay. No estamos en ninguna alianza internacional con USA para que tengan una base aquí. Dicho sea de paso es una perdida de soberanía. No creo que más o menos empleos la justifiquen.

Coincido en que las opiniones personales en los foros brasileros no reflejan la realidad. Por más que traigamos 12 M346 no nos cambia en nada nuestra inferioridad bélica absoluta con Brasil. Son excelentes, pero no son más que LIFT que nada tendrían que hacer con cazas puros de 4ta o 5ta generación.
Ahora, si algún día aceptáramos la oferta que Rusia nos hizo hace unos años por 18 Su-30 ex India a un precio de ganga, y si tuviéramos la posibilidad de mantenerlos en el aire, la cosa sería muy distinta para los brasileros. Ahi dudo mucho que permitieran ese desbalance bélico de parte de la Cisplatina.
Con Argentina, es algo distinto, porque su fuerza aérea está diezmada, pero aún así tienen cazas y siguen en planes de adquirir medios modernos serios (se les cayó lo del FA50, pero seguro irán por otros.. se habló del JF17 chino, etc)
Con respecto al trabajo que puede dar una base de USA, es muy probable, pero definirse geopolíticamente de modo tan fuerte, podría hacernos caer exportaciones muy importantes a China y otros destinos no-yankee-friendly como las ovejas que mandamos a Medio Oriente (buques completos).... en definitiva es posible que se pierdan más puestos de trabajo que los que se ganen.
Me parece que lo más inteligente sería continuar jugando con el balance entre todos y pseudo neutralidad para venderle a todos.
Con respecto a los Yak 130, me animaría a decir que ningún piloto uruguayo los ha volado, tampoco los FA50 ni los M346. Solo volaron los L15.

Hoy dia ni los Su-30 venezolanos les mueve la aguja a los Br. La capacitación de los pilotos Br y tecnología aun siendo F-5 los mantiene muy bien entrenados. 
El miedo no es que sean Flankers sino que se vienen los rusos!!
La propaganda maliciosa es asi...

Desconozco los niveles de entrenamiento de los pilotos de uno u otro país.
De todos modos un F5 modernizado contra un Su-30 me parece que no tiene chance alguna. Solamente hablando de maniobrabilidad y velocidad, le lleva años luz en un dogfight. Después dependerá del sistema de armas y habilidad de los pilotos. 
Sigo creyendo que si bien es algo estimo jamás sucederá, si Uruguay tuviera 18 Su30 no pasaría desapercibido para Brasil... seguro les "haría ruido"....
Si bien era inalcanzable desde todo punto de vista, la oferta existió cuando India los cambió por los Su35 y las 18 unidades Su30 esperaban en Bielorrusia por nuevo propietario...
https://www.taringa.net/+aeroespacio/fue...30k_1b8c9e

Taringa no es una fuente de sapiencia. 
Consulta la empresas privadas para combates aereos para la, Usaf y us navy que tipo de aeronaves son las que adquieren.
Te adelanto F-5 F1 Mirage (por algo será)y algunas con F-16
También los escuadrones de agresores han utilizado al F-5 por décadas junto otras aeronaves.
La diferencia está en muy buen entrenamiento de combate, la habilidad del aviador con apoyo tecnológico de su aeronave

Más allá de la fuente, la información no parece falsa. Estos son de copiar y pegar.
Sin dudas las empresas privadas occidentales compran aviones occidentales, y USA compra F5 como "Agressors" .. no creo que tengan posibilidad de comprarle a nadie Su30 ni MIG 21 para eso (aunque les encantaría).
Sinceramente, sigo creyendo que un Su30 está varios escalones arriba de cualquier F5.
Incluso en foros brasileros sobre el tema, reconocen la enorme superioridad y hay buenos argumentos:
https://www.aereo.jor.br/2020/09/03/simu...nezuelana/
Acá hay un largo análisis de un piloto de combate hindu, donde explica claramente la superioridad del Su30 sobre el F16 en algunos aspectos, y el F5 queda lejos abajo:
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[url=https://www.quora.com/profile/Jyoti-Prakash-Nayak-16]

Jyoti Prakash Nayak
Fighter Pilot of IAF
Answered December 22, 2016 · Author has 57 answers and 204.5K answer views

An analysis of air force inventories in the majority of countries in the Asia-Pacific region indicates that local fighter forces mostly consist of obsolete U.S.-made F-5 and F-4 aircraft. Only a few air forces are armed with relatively new versions of the F-16 and F/A-18 fighters.
An analysis of air force inventories in the majority of countries in the Asia-Pacific region indicates that local fighter forces mostly consist of obsolete U.S.-made F-5 and F-4 aircraft. Only a few air forces are armed with relatively new versions of the F-16 and F/A-18 fighters.
Purchases by India of the Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighters, which have significantly enhanced combat capabilities of the Indian Air Force, and previous sales of the Su-27 and Su-30 fighters to China and Vietnam may determine further development of air forces in the Asia-Pacific region and help maintain the balance of power.
The competition on the Asia-Pacific military aircraft market, made ever keener by the recent sales of the Su-30MKI fighters, requires from potential buyers a clear understanding of basic specifics of aircraft.
The flight performance, technical characteristics and combat capabilities of any aircraft primarily depend on their assigned role, tactical tasks and mission environment. These factors alone distinguish the Russian fighter from its foreign counterparts.
The Su-30MKI design, having retained the best features of the unsurpassed Su-27 air-superiority fighter, boasts enhanced functional capabilities. It should be noted that comparison of the Su-30MKI, a heavy-class fighter, with the F-16C Block 50, F-16C Block 60, and F-18E/F aircraft is largely theoretical, as they belong to conceptually different fighter classes and have their own, preferential areas of combat employment. For example, the F-18E/F version, owing to the F/A-18 basic design, features a more pronounced strike-mission capability, while in terms of dimensions, this aircraft is close to the Russian fighter.
The famed Su-37 and F-16 side by side at an airshow in Berlin.
The Su-30MKI gets all advanced features of the Su-37 and much more.
The basic tactical and technical characteristics determining the capabilities of any aircraft include its flight performance and avionics and armament characteristics. Their analysis makes it possible to compare aircraft and assess the level of their technical perfection.
The Su-30MKI’s structural and aerodynamic configuration incorporates the latest research and technological achievements. It is a triplane (a combination of conventional design with foreplanes) with a lifting fuselage and developed wingroot extensions. The interaction of the foreplanes and wingroot extensions creates a controlled vortex effect similar to that of the adaptive wing. The F-16 and F-18 designs were developed in the early and mid-1970s. In terms of maximum aerodynamic efficiency, the Su-30MKI, like all Su-27-family aircraft, is unparalleled in the world and outperforms the above foreign counterparts by at least 50 to 100 percent. This is why the latest modernization programs, which gave birth to the F-16C Block 60 and F-18E/F versions, involved the increase of wing span, fuselage length and control surface areas and significantly changed the structural configuration and general layout of their basic versions.
Engines with thrust-vectoring nozzles enable the Su-30MKI to perform such maneuvers as «cobra» vertical reverse, roll in «bell» turn in «cobra» etc. In these maneuvers, an angle of attack can reach 180o. These are not purely aerobatic maneuvers: this supermaneuverability can be effectively used in combat. As for the F-16 and F-18 aircraft, their maximum angles of attack are 30o and 40o, respectively, and they cannot use armament at supercritical angles of attack.
In terms of conventional maneuverability characteristics, all these fighters are very similar. However, according to preliminary assessments, the Su-30MKI’s supermaneuverability gives it a 30-percent superiority over its competitors in close air combat. Aircraft multiple capabilities put into the forefront the problem of effective weapon employment. To solve this problem, the Su-30MKI has a copilot/operator to improve the crew’s performance, weapon employment efficiency and provide for group missions.
Su-27 and F-16
The role of avionics in aircraft combat employment is ever growing. A number of the Su-30MKI fighter’s subsystems (navigation and communications equipment, cockpit instruments) are being developed jointly with foreign companies. Consequently, these subsystems will be technologically on a par with the best foreign counterparts. The superiority of the Su-30MKI’s radar in terms of target detection range, scanning sectors and jamming immunity makes it highly effective in long-range air combat.
Modern Russian fighters are equipped with an advanced optronic system designed to search, detect, lock on, automatically track aerial and ground targets and destroy them by onboard weapons. An optical locating station and a helmet-mounted sight incorporated by the system provide for effective weapon employment against aerial targets. The high accuracy and jamming immunity of the system interfaced with the onboard radar make it possible to detect targets at a range of up to 50 km and engage them in good time, significantly enhancing the fighter’s overall combat capabilities. The helmet-mounted sights have only recently appeared on foreign fighters. As for optronic equipment used against ground targets, the capabilities of the F-16’s LANTIRN and F-18E/F’s ATFLIR systems are close to those of the Russian-made analog, although foreign developers maintain a priority in this field.
Compared to the F-16C Block 50, a heavy weapon load carried by the Su-30MKI significantly (by 20 percent) reduces the time required to defeat ground targets by one sortie, especially when using aerial bombs. The F-18E/F fighter is planned to have a similar combat load capacity in the future.
Notably, in terms of quantity and types of weapons, the Russian fighter considerably outclasses the F-16C Block 50 and F-16C Block 60 aircraft. Only the F-18E/F is close to the Su-30MKI in this respect.
An Australian(?) F-18 and Su-27 seen together in flight
In terms of target designation angles, maneuverability, etc., the R-73E close-range air-to-air missile in service with the Su-30MKI significantly outperforms similar foreign missiles and is rightly considered the world’s best in its class. The high energy and ballistic parameters of the Su-30MKI’s long-range air-to-air missiles, combined with the capability of its radar, allow it to deliver preventive strikes against aerial targets, including its potential rivals.
Fitted with 12 weapon stores, carrying a full complement of air-to-air missiles and featuring a multichannel target engagement capability, the Su-30MKI fighter can be effectively used to repulse a massive air raid.
The Su-30MKI has a twofold advantage over the F-16 aircraft in the number of simultaneously carried air-to-ground guided weapons, which are also more efficient. High-power guided weapons carried by the Su-30MKI enable it to defeat deeply buried, hardened and superhardened priority targets. The Su-30MKI’s medium-range guided missile can be launched at stand-off ranges. The F-18E/F fighter is expected to be armed with similar missiles after 2005. It will be also equipped with air-to-surface missiles guided by a satellite navigation system, although export deliveries of these aircraft are unlikely in the near future.
Antiradar and antiship missiles in service with the Su-30MKI fighter excel their foreign couterparts in their mean speed.The Su-30MKI’s gun features higher accuracy and better armor piercing capability against lightly armored vehicles. Owing to its unique features which favorably distinguish it from foreign counterparts, the Su-30MKI is rightly considered one of the best multirole fighters at the beginning of the 21st century.
Aircraft combat capabilities are usually assessed using complex efficiency indicators defining aircraft overall performance. According to preliminary estimates, in long-range air combat, the Su-30MKI outperforms the F-16C Block 60, F-16C Block 50 and F-18E/F aircraft by 15, 20 and 12-15 percent, respectively, owing to its radar’s greater detection range, higher jamming immunity and multichannel capability, as well as better maneuverability.
he Su-30MKI’s supermaneuverability and better air-to-air missiles give this aircraft superiority in close air combat in which it excels the F-16C Block 50 by 10-15 percent, F-16C Block 60 by 20-30 percent (as the high wing loading significantly limits its maneuverability in close-range combat), and F-18E/F by 15-20 percent.
Opposing Forces: IAF Su-30K and PAF F-16 Fighters
In terms of ground strike capabilities, the Su-30MKI outperforms the F-16C Block 50 by 50 percent and the F-16C Block 60 by 100 percent owing to its better surveillance and fire control radar system, higher survivability, better maneuverability, heavier combat load and longer flight range. The F-18E/F, following its modernization which has increased its flight range, armament suite and ammunition load and upgraded its surveillance and fire control radar system, still lags behind the Su-30MKI in strike capability by 15 to 20 percent.
Another distinguishing feature of the Su-30MKI is its high versatility. It can be used as an air defense interceptor, a strike aircraft or a flying command post. It can be used as a leader aircraft of combined fighter groups (including those of light fighters), ensuring their cooperation and concentration of efforts. In addition, the SDU-10MK digital fly-by-wire control system makes it possible to use the Su-30MKI as a combat trainer.
The above comparative analysis of the Su-30MKI’s combat performance and technical characteristics demonstrate that this aircraft is capable of attaining air superiority, repulsing massive air raids, supporting combat actions of other air groups, destroying a wide range of ground and naval targets, and executing various special missions.
The Su-30MKI can operate over short ranges and also fulfill autonomous long-range missions. Unlike the F-16 and F-18 aircraft, the Su-30MKI’s short-range operation will not reveal all its capabilities, yet its advantages here are still obvious. Hopefully, the above assessment will allow potential customers to evaluate the combat capabilities of the Russian fighter and its main rivals on the Asia-Pacific aircraft market.